Transcript: Pastor
Joel Osteen on 'FNS'
Sunday, December 23, 2007
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WASHINGTON — The following is a
partial transcript of the Dec. 23, 2007, edition of "FOX News Sunday With
Chris Wallace":
"FOX NEWS SUNDAY" HOST CHRIS WALLACE: Now, we continue
our series of interviews with American leaders.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PASTOR JOEL OSTEEN: ... I get out of my comfort zone and believe I
could do it and believe I'm equipped.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALLACE: Joel Osteen has been called the most watched
inspirational figure in the country. Almost 50,000 people attend his Lakewood
Church in Houston every weekend, and his sermons are broadcast to millions
across the nation.
He offers a message about personal growth and positive thinking,
which may explain why he's now pastor of America's largest congregation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
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Interview Archive
OSTEEN:
Today I will be taught the world of God.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALLACE: Joel Osteen, welcome to "FOX News Sunday."
OSTEEN: Thanks, Chris. My pleasure to be with you.
WALLACE: You preach in a former basketball arena that seats 16,000
people. You're the most popular preacher on T.V. Your books are best-sellers.
What do you think it is about your message that people want to hear?
OSTEEN: I don't know if I know exactly, but I think the fact that
it's positive, it's hopeful, and I talk about everyday life.
On Sundays when I speak, I hopefully give somebody something that
they can use the next day at work or at home. So I think that's part of it.
And, too, I think, Chris, there's a lot of negative things trying
to pull people down, and I think people respond when you tell them that hey,
there are good things up ahead.
WALLACE: Now, you've written a new book, "Become a Better
You," in which you say the central message is don't get stuck where you
are, keep growing. How do you do that?
OSTEEN: Well, I think it's a decision you have to make because it
is easy to get stuck. It's easy to get complacent and think, "Well, I've
done pretty good in my career," or, "This is as good as my marriage
is going to go."
But I think you do it by making a decision to develop better
habits, to have better relationships and just, you know, to keep the enthusiasm
for life.
WALLACE: And can you just will that?
OSTEEN: I don't think you can will it, but I think you can — with
your will, you can make changes in your life and you can say, "I'm not
going to — I'm going to be a better parent next year than I am right now,"
or, "I'm going to take an extra step in my career and not just be
satisfied where I am."
So I think it has a lot to do with our will, but also, you know,
it takes a — it takes our own — you know, we have to work as well.
WALLACE: Your show comes on right after us in Washington. I have
to say as soon as — after I'm finished doing politics, I turn you on.
And I was watching you recently talk about the voice inside
yourself and making sure that your inner conversation is positive. I was really
struck by that. Explain what that means.
OSTEEN: Yeah, I think it's a problem that a lot of people have,
and it keeps them back. It holds them back in life. And it's, I believe, in our
subconscious, or in our thinking, that we have a conversation going with
ourselves — or I call it a recording playing.
And a lot of people — their recording is negative. You know, I
have friends, they'll preach a great sermon and they'll drive home thinking,
"Boy, I didn't do good today, and if I'd just done it a little bit
better."
But I try to teach people that I believe God wants us to be
positive toward ourselves, meaning that, you know what, I like the way I look,
I like the way I sound, I'm happy with what I'm doing in my career — and not
always be beating ourselves down.
I think that's just — you know, I see people — they won't be
negative toward other people, but inside they're negative toward themselves,
and I think that holds us back.
WALLACE: But you know — and I have to say I'm guilty of that as much
as anybody else, where you have those seeds of doubt — you know, I could have
done better, or what did they really think, or whatever.
And how do you turn that conversation so instead of hearing seeds
of doubt, you're hearing blossoms of encouragement?
OSTEEN: I think you have a train yourselves. I found that in my
own life — because I would do the same thing. When I'd get through with a
sermon, I'd think, "Man, I'm not as good as my dad, and I don't know how
to minister like other people."
But just little by little, I started — you know what? I think it
starts from knowing that God loves you and God accepts you, but I think you
just train yourselves to say, "You know what? I'm not going to beat myself
up. I did the best I can do, and so I'm going to believe that — I'm going to
believe good things about myself."
WALLACE: Now, as with most successful people, you have critics who
say that what you offer is gospel "lite," the prosperity gospel. They
say you're more a motivational speaker than you are a pastor. How do you answer
that?
OSTEEN: Well, a couple things. When I became a pastor eight years
ago when my father died, I didn't change — this is who I've always been. I've
always been — you know, my personality is motivating and encouraging. And so
I'm just being who God made me to be.
About it being "lite", I mean, every week we deal with
people that are going through divorces and that are facing life-threatening
illnesses, and I'm giving them hope. And to me, I don't think there's anything
"lite" about that.
I think sometimes the critics want me to beat people down, and
that's not in me. I want to lift people up.
WALLACE: But your critics, again, say you don't talk much about
sin. And a lot of great preachers — Billy Graham used to talk about sin.
OSTEEN: Sure.
WALLACE: You don't go deeply in your sermons into scripture.
Again, why not?
OSTEEN: Yeah. Well, I think — I do talk about sin at the end of
every one of our services back at home and at the end of the broadcast, but
just, you know, as a pastor, I'm not trying to get everybody to — and that's
not my main calling, like Billy Graham's.
He was an evangelist. He went out and tried to win everybody to
Christ. And I am ultimately trying to do that, but I'm trying to teach people
how to live their everyday lives, and so I do focus on it, probably not as much
as some people would like.
WALLACE: One of the other things you say — and it has been noted
that your book, "Become a Better You," — that there's no mention of
God. It doesn't mention that you're a pastor, although the book — the text
itself is filled with references to God and scripture.
And one time, I heard you say you want to get out beyond the
church walls.
OSTEEN: Yes, exactly. That's part of our — our whole message is
it's easy to just keep preaching to the church and people that already come.
But that's why we air on broadcast stations that are not
necessarily Christian stations. It's because I want to try to reach people that
— maybe they went to church 20 years ago, or maybe they just think, "You
know what? I'm not a religion person. This doesn't have anything to do with
me."
I'm trying to make God more relevant in our society. And I think
talking in everyday terms and making sure people can understand it — I think
that's important.
WALLACE: Someone said, "You know, Joel Osteen has not had
much formal training as a pastor." And your response was you said,
"Neither did the 12 disciples of Jesus."
Are you comfortable with that comparison?
OSTEEN: Well, I think I am. It's just I'm all for education, and I
have, you know, friends that have been through seminary and gotten their
doctorate and all. But it just so happened with me. I know this is right for
me.
And I think so. I mean, I know, you know, back in Bible days,
there were these famous schools of the prophets, but some of the ones Jesus
chose didn't come through that route — and not to say that they weren't good,
but I'm comfortable.
WALLACE: So are you saying that anyone can be a preacher?
OSTEEN: Well, really, I think you have to be — I think every
person can, maybe not in front of a lot of people, but I believe we're supposed
to — I like to call it a minister, but I believe — I teach our congregation
every week, you know, you need to minister to the people around you, where you
work at.
You see somebody down, that's lonely, take them to lunch.
Encourage them. To me, that's part of it. That's not, you know, public speaking
like I am, but I think you have to be called, number one. You have to feel it
in your heart, this is what you're supposed to do.
And you know, ideally, I think it's good to be trained.
WALLACE: Religion is playing a big role in this presidential
campaign. Should voters consider a candidate's faith, what he believes? Is that
a legitimate issue in a political campaign?
OSTEEN: Well, I think it plays a role in it. I mean, I like to
know what somebody believes. I think that knowing that somebody shares a belief
like me, I think that — you know, that helps me to know what they stand for.
But I believe, also, you need to look at a person's character and
what they've stood up for. And so I don't think it should be the only thing,
that, "Hey, I'm going to vote this person because, you know, they share my
exact beliefs," but yet they're not very good in the political world. So I
think it plays a role.
WALLACE: So in that sense, what do you make of Mike Huckabee, a
Southern Baptist pastor who's doing so well and, in effect, using his faith as
part of his platform?
OSTEEN: Well, you know what? I like Mike Huckabee. I've never met
him. My brother's from Little Rock and he knows him and says he's a fine man.
And so I like what he stands for.
From what I've seen, I don't think he's overdone it. I think he's
just — you know, he's a Baptist pastor. That's in him. And I think he's just
standing up for what he believes in.
WALLACE: And what about Mitt Romney? And I've
got to ask you the question, because it is a question whether it should be or
not in this campaign, is a Mormon a true Christian?
OSTEEN: Well, in my mind they are. Mitt Romney
has said that he believes in Christ as his savior, and that's what I believe,
so, you know, I'm not the one to judge the little details of it. So I believe
they are.
And so, you know, Mitt Romney seems like a man
of character and integrity to me, and I don't think he would — anything would
stop me from voting for him if that's what I felt like.
WALLACE: So, for instance, when people start
talking about Joseph Smith, the founder of the church, and the golden tablets
in upstate New York, and God assumes the shape of a man, do you not get hung up
in those theological issues?
OSTEEN: I probably don't get hung up in them
because I haven't really studied them or thought about them. And you know, I
just try to let God be the judge of that. I mean, I don't know.
I certainly can't say that I agree with everything that I've heard
about it, but from what I've heard from Mitt, when he says that Christ is his
savior, to me that's a common bond.
WALLACE: Unlike a lot of preachers, you don't — and I can sense a
little discomfort on your part — you don't get involved in politics. You don't
talk a lot about abortion and gays and the so- called social issues. Why not?
OSTEEN: Well, it started back with my father. He never did. And I
just don't feel comfortable as well. I don't feel like that's my main gifting.
And I feel like when I stay focused on encouraging people, and giving them
hope, and helping them live their everyday life, I think that's where I can
have the most impact.
And I even heard Billy Graham say this, and I think it's true.
Sometimes when you take strong stands, if you're not called to do it, you're
dividing the audience you're trying to reach.
I'm trying to throw a big net out there to say to anyone that God
loves them and he's in control. And I think the moment — even our church is so
diverse. We have Republicans, Democrats, independents.
And I think the moment I start saying, "Well, go this route,"
well, this group's going to just say, "I'm not going to listen to him
because of the political stance."
WALLACE: Occasionally, some well-known televangelist — you know,
and it's true of every profession, but obviously it's bigger news when it
becomes a televangelist — gets caught up in scandal, and there's all this talk
about hypocrisy, being corrupted by fame and fortune. Why do you think that
happens?
OSTEEN: Well, I think it can happen in any profession. I think
sometimes, you know, you just lose your focus, and I think that's easy to do
when you start getting, you know, more fame, more money, more power.
But I don't think — you know, I don't think it has to happen and,
you know, like you said, there are millions of great ministers. And I think in
every field some people kind of get a little off balance.
WALLACE: And you know, obviously, you are making an enormous
amount of money with the television show, with these best-selling books.
How do you personally — how does Joel Osteen keep himself safe, guard
against being corrupted by all the temptations that must surround you?
OSTEEN: Yeah. I think there's a couple things.
One, I like to start my day off every morning, take the first half hour and
just search my own heart, see if I'm on the right course, try to be honest with
myself — am I doing this for the right reasons?
Two, I have good family around me that I think
can speak into my life. And the other thing is, you know, I'm — I realize that
as quick as you go up, you can really come down that quick. And we've seen it
happen with others.
So I just try to not really think about it. I
don't feel any different than I did eight years ago.
WALLACE: I'm curious. When you have that morning sort of
checklist, do you ever find yourself saying — you know, because of the fact —
you're a big deal. You're a national and international figure.
Do you ever find yourself saying, "You know, wait a minute,
Joel, I'm losing my way here?"
OSTEEN: Well, I don't. I don't. I can't say that I necessarily
have yet, because I've tried to do this a little at a time. And I'm not saying
that I'm perfect.
But there are a lot of decisions we pass up on because we think,
"You know what? That's just going to build — you know, maybe that's going
to build me and not build the ministry and what I'm trying to do." So we
pass up on a lot of opportunities.
And again, I'm not perfect, but I think that I've done good to
stay focused on what I'm called to do.
WALLACE: Christmas will be here in two days. With all the parties,
all the commercialism, all of the gifts, it's kind of easy to forget what this
holiday is really all about.
OSTEEN: It really is, and it's gotten — it seems to get, you know,
worse and worse, you know, with all the consumerism. But you know what? We just
remind people to let's celebrate, you know, the birth of Christ.
And you know, I really don't like to get caught up in all the
gifts. And I know that gifts are fun and we, of course, buy them for our family
and things. But to me, just not taking people for granted, not just at
Christmas, but all through the year.
And I encourage people in a lot of my messages that you've got to
make the most of every day. And you know, to me, these are the good old days.
Sometimes we look back and 10 years from now. We think, "Boy, those were
great old days." Well, you know, we're living in the good old days.
So I think we should enjoy our families and everyone that we love
right now, you know, each day.
WALLACE: And beyond that, is there a message you
would like to give our viewers before they watch your show, as they're watching
our show, a message this Christmas?
OSTEEN: Oh, my message is that — you know, that
God is a good God, and that he's on our side, and that he has great things in
store and, you know, I believe that as we receive the forgiveness that Christ
came and was born and died to give us, then we can live a great life.
WALLACE: Joel Osteen, thank you so much for coming and visiting
with us. And merry Christmas, sir.
OSTEEN: Same to you. Merry Christmas.
May the LORD lead and grant Mr. Joel Osteen into repentance. I pray that Mr. Joel Osteen recover from the error of his ways and find mercy, grace and truth that are abundant in Jesus Christ. I pray that Joel repent before great destruction, humiliation and exposure take place in his life.
What a tragic display of abusing the gift and calling of God. What a horrendous example of becoming a people-pleaser instead of pleasing God alone. What a despicable example of failing to use an opportunity to tell the masses that they must repent before a holy God and confess the Lord Jesus Christ. And, how Jesus died on a cross for the sins of the world and came back to life by the glory of the Father. That-- this same, Jesus is coming back as mighty King of Kings and shall dash His enemies into shivers but, save those who love and obey Him.
How sad that Joel Osteen chooses to whitewash the gospel of God into a milque-toast powerless message of “encouragement”. People need to hear the truth. People need repentance. People need Jesus Christ. People must repent for God commands it. It is a great error to use God’s Holy Word for any other purpose than to proclaim the truth. It is dangerous to twist God’s Word into a pop-psychology “motivational speech”.
A true minister speaks the truth in love. We must note the ministry of Jesus as our example. Jesus said, “The world can not hate you; but me it hates, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil” John 7:7.
Jesus told the truth regardless of how the crowd would react. Yes, there may be great ramifications for telling the people the truth. But that is the obligation of a true follower of Jesus Christ. God has not called anyone of those who profess faith in Jesus to be a “man-pleaser”. A true minister of Jesus Christ will tell the truth and lead people away from sin and into the repentance. As it is written, “Because with lies you have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, by promising him life.”
Trevor Davis
p.s. Any religion,
group or individual that believes that they may become a ‘god’ is deceived. This is the lie spoken by the serpent in the
garden as recorded in Genesis 3 (Genesis
3:5).
It is a fact that the Mystery Religions of Antiquity, the Luceferians, the Secret Societies and Mormons believe this lie.
Please review the
following audios for more on this and the temptation of Jesus by the devil as
recorded in Matthew 4:1.
http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Mat/Mat004.html?q=matthew%204#top
The WOLF
Ministers In Sheepskin (The lives of the flock) (New)
Trevor Davis
12.1.2007
Listen:
The Glory:
Humble Before The LORD; Or, Hide From The LORD (Isaiah 2) (New)
Trevor Davis
12.1.2007
Listen:
I